10 JUNE 1940SATYENDRA: Will there be any hierarchy among the supramental beings? SRI AUROBINDO: Supramental beings? In the Overhead, there is a hierarchy: Higher Mind, Illumined Mind, Intuition and so on. PURANI: That includes the Overmind. SRI AUROBINDO: Yes, among the supramental beings too there is a hierarchy, in the sense of a gradation of consciousness towards the Sachchidananda. NIRODBARAN: Sisir was saying you have written in the last volume of The Life Divine that the supramental beings will retire into islets. SRI AUROBINDO (laughing): I meant by islets, living in collective groups. NIRODBARAN: I also said the same thing to him. SATYENDRA: Like individual isolation, it will be a collective isolation. That is still my difficulty — why should there be any Page -701 collective group? One can exercise one's influence individually as well. SRI AUROBINDO: Yes, but collective influence will be of a different kind — so that it may exercise its influence on the whole world. Individual isolation is for those who want Mukti. But this will be an ideal collective group along with the change of the outer mould to serve as an ideal life to others. NIRODBARAN: Will there be missions to other countries? SRI AUROBINDO: Good Lord, missions for preaching? No! Groups will develop and will have different expressions according to different conditions. Whatever is necessary, and in whichever way needed, will grow up of itself. SATYENDRA: I do not know how Pondicherry could have been selected. SRI AUROBINDO (laughing): When I came it was very quiet, there was no life. Of course there was a lot of beating and fighting, if you mean by that life.
Then the talk changed to the topic of war.
NIRODBARAN: Germany has thrown in a huge army. SRI AUROBINDO: A tremendous number. They have lost about half a million, and as many in Belgium, and still they are putting in fresh numbers. Can France stand against it all? NIRODBARAN: Why does not England send her Expeditionary Force? SRI AUROBINDO: Good Lord! You must give them at seven days' rest. NIRODBARAN: But she is supposed to have a big army. SATYENDRA: It is under training now and it will take some time. The English have no conscription and so are as raw as ourselves. NIRODBARAN : What about America? There is a big army there SRI AUROBINDO: Not so big -only fifty thousand, and they want to make it a million. They are also not properly trained. Of course they can call up their volunteers. Even they will have to be trained till August. The question is whether France will be able to stand so long. NIRODBARAN: If Paris falls, will the French be able to continue the fight? Page -702 SRI AUROBINDO: They can, but it will mean a decentralisation of their whole life. And, besides, a great moral shock. It is not like India shifting the capital to several places. PURANI: In the last war they shifted the Government to Bordeaux. SRI AUROBINDO: Besides, north France is the most important part because of the industries and commerce there. If Paris goes, Normandy also will go, that is, France virtually will go. In the south, Bordeaux and Rhone are the few important places. That has always been the difficulty of France -that Paris is too near the frontier. If Paris is taken, Hitler will have some breathing time before he attacks other countries. SATYENDRA: England will continue to fight, Churchill says, even after England is gone. SRI AUROBINDO: Yes, that is something new. The English people are very tough, they will go on till they are directly touched. (After a while) These huge migrations are quite unprecedented in history. Two million Belgians have gone to Paris. NIRODBARAN: They can be put in the army. SRI AUROBINDO: That is what is being done. NIRODBARAN: If the British Government had started training in India, India would have played a great part at present. The commander-in-chief speaks of one hundred thousand soldiers. SRI AUROBINDO: That is nothing. SATYENDRA: Now everybody is speaking of India's defence. The Statesman of Calcutta is pleading for a compromise and settlement and starting the defence preparation. The European Association in Calcutta is also urging it. SRI AUROBINDO: Because they have seen things with their own eyes and know and are practical people. The Statesman has always been for some self-government for India. Englishmen have got a correct vital instinct. They know that it is a time of necessity, while the ruling class is shut up in its traditions and runs in grooves. The Labour Party can now exert its pressure on the Government. SATYENDRA: When they are out of the Government they can press, but when in the Government practical difficulties come in the way. SRI AUROBINDO: Yes, but necessity now demands self-government. Of course if the Congress had been conciliatory it would have Page -703 been easy for the British Government. They can't accept whatever the Constituent Assembly decides. SATYENDRA: Englishmen here have their own vital interest at stake.
SRI AUROBINDO: Yes, but that interest is also connected with
England and if England goes, they also go.
11 JUNE 1940The radio news: Italy has joined the war.
SRI AUROBINDO (looking at Purani): So Mussolini has butted in? When he sees that Germany is winning he comes to share the spoils. PURANI: Yes. It's a jackal policy. But he says it is according to his understanding with Hitler. NIRODBARAN : Understanding? No, he says pledge. SATYENDRA: Pledge or no pledge, why say all that? Why not say plainly that he wants to join? SRI AUROBINDO: Then what becomes of diplomacy? PURANI: He has only declared war, not started any attack. NIRODBARAN: Why don't the Allies take the initiative? SATYENDRA: Their hands are full with the defence. SRI AUROBINDO: Quite so. PURANI: He may perhaps invade Corsica with aeroplanes or land parachutes. SRI AUROBINDO: I don't think so. That requires dash and daring. PURANI: Hitler may have kept off Russia by guaranteeing that Italy wouldn't go to the Balkans. SRI AUROBINDO: Quite possible. But for how long? It will come later on. If the Allies could attack Germany through Greece, then some pressure would be relieved. That is the only way. NIRODBARAN: But it is not possible at present. SRI AUROBINDO: No, this neutrality stands in the way. PURANI: Turkey will be for the Allies now since Russia is not involved. SRI AUROBINDO: Yes, but when war spreads to the Mediterranean? Page -704 NIRODBARAN: Roosevelt's important speech is not so important after all. He speaks of all possible material help to the Allies. SRI AUROBINDO: He has already said that before. But he asks the people to be ready. That may be a hint. SATYENDRA: If he could he would have declared in favour of the Allies. PURANI: He seems to have said to Italy that Italy's coming into the war would bring in a series of interventions. SRI AUROBINDO: I see. NIRODBARAN: America may come in when it is too late. SRI AUROBINDO: They are all too late in everything. NIRODBARAN: It is a pity that France is paying heavily for England's misdeeds. SRI AUROBINDO (laughing): France is also to blame because of Daladier's betrayal of Czechoslovakia. NIRODBARAN: That was partly due to Chamberlain's pressure. France alone couldn't fight Germany. PURANI: There was Russia. Both France and Russia could have combined and England would have had to come in later. SRI AUROBINDO: Yes. NIRODBARAN: Natesan was saying that Daladier has been driven out because he was pleading for surrender — that is the rumour. SRI AUROBINDO: Rumour? May be. You have seen that Britain has left Norway? PURANI: Yes. NIRODBARAN: From Narvik too? SRI AUROBINDO: Yes. SATYENDRA: From Norway altogether. NIRODBARAN: And she lost three destroyers. SRI AUROBINDO: Yes, I don't know how. But it is nothing to her. She has many destroyers.
EVENINGItaly has declared war on the Allies and said that she will carry out war according to the international and humanitarian law.
SRI AUROBINDO (sarcastically): So Italy will fight according to the international law? PURANI (laughing): Yes. She says so. Page -705 SRI AUROBINDO: That means, "Don't strike me." Mussolini knows that if he hits he will be hit back. Italy has never been humanitarian anywhere. PURANI: Italy may attack Marseilles by sea or she can invade the frontier overland. SRI AUROBINDO: Yes, but France is quite prepared for the defence. Italy's main strength is in her fleet, strength not on paper but in organisation and fighting power. But it hasn't been proved yet. PURANI: Her aeroplanes also seem to be very strong. SRI AUROBINDO: That also has to be proved.
12 JUNE 1940SRI AUROBINDO: What has happened to the Italian flotilla? (Addressing Purani) The news was that the Italian flotilla has started for Africa. It requires so many days to reach Africa?
There was very little talk today. The Germans are approaching nearer and nearer to Paris.
13 JUNE 1940The German army is less than twenty miles from Paris.
PURANI: André Maurois, the writer, has flown to England to ask for more men to be sent to France - raw recruits don't matter. They are badly in need of men. SRI AUROBINDO: Men who know how to shoot? (Laughter) You said the number of Germans is ten to one against the French? PURANI: Yes, in certain sectors. SRI AUROBINDO: How can France fight against such odds? It seems it is by sheer mass that Germany is carrying on. The mechanised units are not so effective now. NIRODBARAN: Hitler also must have had tremendous losses. SRI AUROBINDO: For that he is prepared. He has said already that he is prepared to sacrifice one million men against the Maginot Line. (After a while) Paris has been the centre of human civilisation Page -706 for three centuries. Now he will destroy it. That is the sign of the Asura. History is repeating itself. The Graeco-Roman civilisation was also destroyed by Germany. NIRODBARAN: But if France does not defend Paris? SRI AUROBINDO: Then he will not destroy it immediately. The unfortunate thing is that all are tied to modern civilisation - even China and Japan. NIRODBARAN: If Americans had come in! PURANI: They ought to have come in four months ago. SRI AUROBINDO: Everybody has realised what German rule will be like. You have seen what an Irish minister has said? He says, "If Ireland dies we do not want to live." They know what life will be like under Hitler. Ireland has no feeling for England. Left alone it would not mind if England went down. NIRODBARAN: England is responsible for this bitterness. SRI AUROBINDO: In the past, yes. Ireland has undergone more repression than India. Everybody but India realises this. You have heard what picture Roosevelt has drawn of the future under Hitler? PURANI (after some time): The Khaksars have been rounded up; three hundred people have been arrested. Sikander Hyat Khan has said that the Government has found the link between Khaksars and the enemy countries. SRI AUROBINDO: Oh, has he? Where has he said that? PURANI: I do not know, but he has said so and therefore he has no sympathy for them. SRI AUROBINDO: At last he has woken up. The Khaksars were a terrible danger to the Hindus too. PURANI: It seems the Thakore of Rajkot died as the result of tiger hunting. SATYENDRA: Not heart-failure? PURANI: Heart-failure as a consequence probably. Virawalla is also dead. Our people will surely link up these two deaths with Gandhi's fast. They will say, "It is a punishment for their behaviour with the saint." SATYENDRA: Oh yes! SRI AUROBINDO: That proves what I have written in the Essays on the Gita about soul-force. SATYENDRA : There may be some subtle way in which the moral force will work. But Gandhi did not change his heart. Page -707 SRI AUROBINDO: He may have changed the Thakore and his Dewan - but not the heart, maybe the head. (Laughter)
EVENING
PURANI: Some officer's wife has written that the Germans dropped about 160 bombs in the village she lives in but not a single one exploded. The village is in the lower region of Paris. SRI AUROBINDO: Mother's brother's family is also in the lower region. They thought it would be quite safe. PURANI: The French claim to have pushed the Germans back five miles. Something! SRI AUROBINDO (smiling): That is only in one sector. There thirty others. This time the British could not be masterly in their retreat. Some six thousand troops have been caught. PURANI: No, they seem to have been cut off. SATYENDRA: England can easily send half a million troops. What France needs now is men. NIRODBARAN: Perhaps they fear an invasion by Germany. SRI AUROBINDO: That is not likely now. After France is occupied, Hitler may turn his attention there. But the English Army is still in training. PURANI: Neither are they good soldiers. They can of course be sent to the south. SRI AUROBINDO: Yes, they may be good for the Italians. (Laughter) SATYENDRA: How is that? At one time they were considered good soldiers. In India they fought us well. SRI AUROBINDO: That was only groups of people. Now the whole nation has to be prepared to fight. Besides, they have all become comfortable and ease-loving. Even the French are not as good as in the last war. The French peasants and farmers have become rich and used to comforts and they don't like to be disturbed. SATYENDRA: The Germans, of course, have always the will to power but when will they settle in peace? SRI AUROBINDO: Militarism is in their blood. They were at one time hired as mercenaries. Page -708 14 JUNE 1940PURANI: Jaswant has been arrested under the Defence Act. As the president of All-India Students' Federation or something of the sort he gave lectures for which he has been arrested. He is not careful about what he says. SRI AUROBINDO: He never was. PURANI: I am wondering what will become of his marriage. SRI AUROBINDO: God allows marriages but the Government prevents them! Marriages are made in heaven, they say. SATYENDRA: That is difficult to swallow. Marie Corelli writes of such things in her novels, bringing in Christianity — Electric Christianity, etc. She was very popular at one time, at least in India. SRI AUROBINDO: I used to see her novels everywhere. In England also she was a best-seller. Only the critics were hard on her. SATYENDRA: The poor Indian Express is not allowed up here now. SRI AUROBINDO (laughing): Why? SATYENDRA: Premanand says that the Mother has asked him to send only The Hindu and the Patrika. The others spoil the atmosphere. The thing is that it gives all the news though not the views. PURANI: Paris is not going to be defended, no street fighting. SRI AUROBINDO: That is to prevent the destruction of Paris. Hitler is getting remarkable inspiration from his Asura. He doesn't go by reason but only by the voice. He considers all possibilities and when he fixes on something he goes ahead. Only, he did not foresee the British and French intervention on behalf of Poland. SATYENDRA: Ordinary people won't believe that it is the Asura guiding him. SRI AUROBINDO: No, they won't. NIRODBARAN: Already he is being hailed as greater than Napoleon. . SRI AUROBINDO: That he is not. Napoleon did not have Hitler's resources. If he had had them, he would have conquered England. SATYENDRA: Ludwig writes in his biography of Napoleon that Napoleon was the first to conceive of a federation of Europe under France. SRI AUROBINDO: No, Henry IV and his minister were the first to conceive of federated European states. Page -709 SATYENDRA: Napoleon of course wanted the federation to be under France. SRI AUROBINDO: Under himself. SATYENDRA: He was France. PURANI: Even the Germans favoured the idea. Goethe welcomed it. SRI AUROBINDO: Goethe was not a patriot. He said that the Germans were barbarians and would always be barbarians. PURANI: Kant also did not have much sympathy with Prussia. He was a professor in Prussia, at Konigsberg, I think, but he was not allowed to publish his books there. He had them sent to Weimar and published from there. The authorities were wild at him. SRI AUROBINDO: The Duke of Weimar was a liberal. PURANI: The Christians tried to make out that Kant disproved the existence of God. SRI AUROBINDO: No, on the contrary, he tried to prove the possibility of the existence of God. Goethe was a cosmopolitan. When he was asked to express hatred against France, he said that he owed most of his culture to France. PURANI: Frederick the Great had a deep respect for France. He tried to establish a friendship with Voltaire and frequently invited him to his court. Voltaire used to get disgusted with the company of all the German generals sitting so upright and very often he refused the invitation. SRI AUROBINDO: Naturally. English generals are no better, perhaps. Frederick tried to write poetry in French and once sent some to Voltaire. Someone seeing the bundle asked him what it was. Voltaire said, "Frederick has sent some of his dirty linen to wash." (Laughter) PURANI: He was very bad-tempered and nobody dared to take any liberty with him, except Voltaire. SRI AUROBINDO: Both were bad-tempered and they were difficult for anybody to live with. Frederick was an egotist too. PURANI: He was very charitable, it seems. SRI AUROBINDO: Yes, that was one good side of his character. NIRODBAKAN: Has Paris been taken any time before? SRI AUROBINDO: Oh yes, during Napoleon's time and then during the Franco-Prussian war. PURANI: The difficulty is that Paris is very near the frontier, just as Madras to Pondicherry. Page -710 SRI AUROBINDO: Yes, but each yard of fighting costs a tremendous loss. This war is not so bad as the last one, as that was trench warfare. Besides, in the defence the loss is less than in the attack. SATYENDRA: Even in the open field? SRI AUROBINDO: Yes, because in the defence the army remains behind the guns. PURANI (after some time): They are all calculating Italy's strength, economy, materials, and military power. SRI AUROBINDO: Calculations are always wrong. PURANI: Reynaud has appealed to Roosevelt for materials. SRI AUROBINDO: Yes, everything short of an expeditionary force. NIRODBARAN: Why does he stop there? SRI AUROBINDO: He doesn't want to offend the American people, so he repeats himself in the same language. PURANI: If the French had more materials, guns, bombs, then they could stand. NIRODBARAN: If America sends an army at all, it may be too late, as Reynaud says. SRI AUROBINDO: Quite so. PURANI; If Roosevelt had been secure in his presidential seat, then- SRI AUROBINDO: Then he would have declared war at once. He is too clever a politician to do it now. After he is renominated by the Democratic Party at the end of June, he may declare war. If Washington had been destroyed by the Germans, then — PURANI: Then of course on that pretext he would have done it. SRI AUROBINDO: Constitutionally he has the power to declare war. PURANI: Oh yes, he can do anything, like a dictator. In that way the President has immense power. NIRODBARAN: Reynaud says that the French will fight from Africa. SRI AUROBINDO: And even from America. They have taken that example from King Albert. In the last war he carried on the war from France, and Wilhelmina is also doing that. NIRODBARAN: The French can bring their African Army to Paris -perhaps the Africans are not good fighters. SRI AUROBINDO: No, they are excellent fighters. Page -711 PURANI: Some French military officer said that the French knew all about the German dive-bombers, tanks, etc. SRI AUROBINDO: That is said to protect the Government. If they had known, they would have done something to counter the heavy tanks. NIRODBARAN: What are these secret bomb-sights of America? PURANI: With them they can see clearly at night, even from a distance often thousand feet, and thus strike accurately. NIRODBARAN: But seeing, is not enough; they may miss. PURANI: No, what about the Graf Spee fight? Both parties were ten miles apart and yet they could hit accurately. The bombs are mechanised in an accurate way. SRI AUROBINDO: It is as with guns — you see and shoot. That is not the difficulty.
EVENING
The Germans have entered Paris as it was proclaimed to be undefended. There was very little talk; all seemed to be sad and stunned by the news, though it was not quite unexpected as the French had been fighting against heavy odds.
PURANI: The French troops must have been thoroughly exhausted by so many days' consecutive fighting. They seem to have no reserve force. SRI AUROBINDO: Yes, no reserve force. But such a force was the first thing they saw to in the last war. (After a pause) They have not defended Paris to prevent destruction, I suppose. But I don't think it has been a wise decision. They would have done well if they had defended it, because it is not likely that Germany will preserve it. Destruction of Paris means the destruction of modern Europen civilisation. NIRODBARAN: Especially if the tide of war turns against them, they are certain to destroy it. SRI AUROBINDO: The French first decided to defend; what made them change their minds? PURANI: Maybe England advised them so. SRI AUROBINDO: It is not England's business. PURANI: Dara has written from Hyderabad how he is faring and how everybody is kind to him. Then he says, "It doesn't matter Page -712 much to the world whether I remain here or go elsewhere." (Laughter) SRI AUROBINDO: Why "much"? It doesn't matter at all! (Laughter)
15 JUNE 1940PURANI: Haradhan is convinced that France will win. NIRODBARAN: Is he sending spiritual force? PURANI: Of course he is! SRI AUROBINDO: France might win after great suffering but she is likely to be overrun before that. NIRODBARAN: Already they are being chased by Germany. The Germans have bombed the new centre of government. SRI AUROBINDO: They must have got the information from the communists. It is like Norway. PURANI: Yes, there the Germans knew the exact place where the Government had shifted. NIRODBARAN: What has happened to the communist prisoners now? Have they been released? SRI AUROBINDO : Why? They are in Britanny. I hope they will be sent to French Guiana before anything happens. (Laughter. Looking at Purani) By the way Hitler has said that he will enter Paris on the 15th. He may have meant the army. NIRODBARAN: By Jove, how remarkably precise! SRI AUROBINDO: Yes, he is getting remarkable guidance from his Asura. Sometimes the Asuras have an extraordinary foresight that comes true with perfect precision both on the vital and subtle-physical planes, just like that which is possible on the spiritual planes. Of course they are not always infallible. But Hitler committed only one mistake: when attacking Poland he thought that the Allies wouldn't intervene. (Smiling) Napoleon did not have such guidance. NIRODBARAN: Had Hitler's Asura anything to do with your accident? SRI AUROBINDO: I don't think so. NIRODBARAN: Do the Asuras know about their own destruction? SRI AUROBINDO: No. Page -713 NIRODBARAN: That's like the astrologers who know of others' death but not their own. SRI AUROBINDO: No, some know of their own death also. Kasherao's father knew the exact day to the minute. He was an astrologer. Did I tell you the story of Louis XI and his astrologer? He received an invitation from Charles of Burgundy. Louis consulted his astrologer whether he should go or not. The astrologer said, "It is quite safe, you can go." And Louis was imprisoned! From the prison Louis arranged to have his astrologer murdered. But the astrologer came to know of the plot from the hangman. The plot was that when the astrologer was about to leave after seeing the king in the prison, the king would say, "Peace be with you, peace be with you," which would be the signal to kill him. So when the astrologer came the king asked him, "By the way, do you know the hour of your death?" He replied, "Exactly twenty-four hours before your death." The king got the fright of his life and accompanied him all along the way to see that he might be quite safe. (Laughter) This story is told by Scott in Quentin Durward. But it turned out later on that the king actually died twenty-four hours after the astrologer. Many other stories are there where the hour of death was precisely known. NIRODBARAN : Turkey is on the point of taking grave decisions. Is it about joining the war? SRI AUROBINDO: Probably. She is bound by a treaty with the Allies to do so when war breaks out in the Mediterranean. NIRODBARAN: That means the involvement of the Balkan powers. SRI AUROBINDO: She is consulting them. NIRODBARAN: Russia seems to be frightened by Germany's success and is taking many precautions in the Balkans and the Baltic. SRI AUROBINDO: Precautions won't help if Hitler is triumphant. (After a while to Purani) Do you know if there are still any people with political tendencies in the Maharshi's Ashram? Once it had revolutionaries like Ganapati Shastri. PURANI: I don't know but I don't think there are any such people now. Somebody in the Maharshi's Ashram holds the view that knowledge and power are quite separate aspects of the Divine. The one is dissociated and quite distinct from the other. That is, knowledge won't have power; they don't go together. SRI AUROBINDO: Won't have? PURANI: Or need not have. Page -714 SRI AUROBINDO: That is another matter. SATYENDRA: We have seen this in so many people who have knowledge but no power. One who may have experience or knowledge of Sat need not know of Chit and thus have no power, unless it is of Chit-rupa. SRI AUROBINDO: If knowledge gave power all intellectuals would have power, and really they have none. (Laughter) PURANI: I am not talking of- SRI AUROBINDO: I know, I know. (Laughing) I am talking of principles. Even the knowledge of Chit does not necessarily give power. The power may be there but it may not manifest; it may remain quiescent. The Spirit is not impotent but it may remain static and quiescent. It depends on the line one follows, whether one leans on the witness side or the dynamic side. On the other hand there are many spiritual people who have little knowledge but much power. PURANI: Olaf is angry with Nolini because Nolini did not tell him at first that he had to accept the Mother. SRI AUROBINDO: He did not come here as a disciple but only as a visitor. Even then he has said that if he had known about the discipline of the Ashram, he would have left it at once. Anyway, I would like to see him go as soon as possible. PURANI: In the Maharshi he has found his right Guru, he says. I hope he will be able to stay half the time there. Premanand was waiting for Sarojini Naidu's visit to the Library. Pujalal remarked, "Keep both parts of the door open!" Premanand did not understand the joke, so I said, "She may not be able to pass through only one open part of the door!" (Laughter) SRI AUROBINDO: It would have been awkward if she came and got stuck and then the other part of the door had to be opened. In the photographs she looks hardly human. How has she become so fat? Eats much? Of course, some people have the tendency to grow fat in spite of sparse meals. (Looking at Nirodbaran) Is it due to glands? NlRODBARAN: In women sometimes the change of life brings it in, because of the action of the glands. SATYENDRA: Yes, women get fat after menopause. PURANI: Not all women. SRI AUROBINDO: Otherwise the world would be full of fat women. Suvrata¹ is tolerable compared to Sarojini Naidu.
¹Madame Yvonne R. Gaebele. Page -715 PURANI: Oh yes, because she is taller too. NIRODBARAN: Sisir had a vision of the Mahakali aspect of the Mother in meditation as a sort of reply to his sorrow over the fall of Paris and he heard a voice saying, "Don't worry, don't worry." PURANI: I had the perception of an angel praying to the Mother for Paris and the descent of peace over Paris.
EVENINGPURANI: I don't know how to interpret Suvrata's report to me that she heard on the radio that you have appealed to Roosevelt to intervene on behalf of the Allies. She heard your name clearly. (Laughter) I don't see what the relation between you and Roosevelt is. SRI AUROBINDO: Oh, I know. It maybe because of Nishtha.¹ That may be the relation. (Laughter) PURANI: Later on it struck me that it may be Sailen Ghose who might have appealed. SRI AUROBINDO: I see!
16 JUNE 1940PURANI: It was Tagore and not Sailen Ghose who appealed to Roosevelt yesterday. (Laughter) I don't know how Suvrata could confuse your name and Tagore's. SRI AUROBINDO (laughing): Perhaps because my name also has bin as in Rabindranath and the second syllable of Tagore has a similar sound to Ghose. (Laughter) NIRODBARAN: Dilip says that the Americans won't come into the war; he is quite definite about it. SRI AUROBINDO: They are hesitating and they may not unless they are frightened of conquest by Hitler. PURANI: Americans are now willing to enlist for the Allies but their law doesn't allow them. NIRODBARAN: Can't the law be changed? SRI AUROBINDO: It can be but the Congress has to do it. It is not sufficiently war-minded, perhaps.
¹An American disciple, the daughter of Woodrow Wilson. Page -716 NIRODBARAN: Dilip says, "If the Americans don't come now, why should they come later to board a sinking ship?" SRI AUROBINDO: Quite so. NIRODBARAN: I lay a bet that America will come. But the point is, if she comes too late it won't be very effective, specially if France is already overrun. SRI AUROBINDO: Exactly. NIRODBARAN: He says that the Americans haven't much sympathy for Paris, but they have for London. If London falls then they may come, for after all they belong to the same stock. SRI AUROBINDO: That is not true. They have more sympathy for Paris than for London. As a matter of fact they don't trust Englishmen. PURANI: So many Americans visit Paris all round the year! NIRODBARAN: Somebody told Dilip that now that the Germans are pushing southwards and to the rear of the Maginot Line, the French run the risk of being annihilated. SRI AUROBINDO: Annihilated? How? They can withdraw towards the south. They still have their fleet. NIRODBARAN: They can go to Africa and fight from there, as they say. SRI AUROBINDO: If they can defend the Maginot Line and provided they have the supplies and the ammunition, they can stand for a long time. NIRODBARAN: But does it operate both ways? PURANI: Yes, that is the arrangement. SRI AUROBINDO: The French made the mistake of not concentrating all their troops against Hitler. NIRODBARAN : Dilip says if America is attacked by Hitler, it will only be after a long time. SRI AUROBINDO: Yes, he will settle first with Asia and Africa. NIRODBARAN: England? SRI AUROBINDO : An attack on England is not likely unless her navy is first destroyed. NIRODBARAN: England won't give the fight up even if France is conquered. SRI AUROBINDO : No; so long as she has her fleet, she will carry on. NIRODBARAN: And Russia is there. SRI AUROBINDO: Yes, Hitler is the great danger to Russia. Page -717 NIRODBARAN: Stalin is already taking measures to protect himself in the Baltic. SRI AUROBINDO (addressing Purani): Yes, what is this pact of non-aggression with Lithuania that Russia speaks of? Non-aggression against whom? Sending troops can only mean landing in Germany. PURANI: Yes, there was some non-aggression pact. Of course these are all excuses. SRI AUROBINDO: Stalin wants to fortify his position while Hitler is engaged elsewhere. He is fortifying it in Galicia too. SATYENDRA: These governments are all a nuisance. Perhaps what Sisir said may come true that we may have to seek refuge on some islets. (Laughter) SRI AUROBINDO: Yes, if islets are available. (Laughter) We shall have to if Hitler or Stalin comes in. Stalin will at the very outset liquidate -this is the Russian term -all Sannyasins and religious institutions. As for Hitler, he will ask us to accept him as the head and factories and industries will be run by the Germans. There will be thorough Nazism. Doraiswamy will have a hard time. As for Y, he will be beaten to death. (Laughter) PURANI: Astrologers say that after the 20th of this month Hitler's decline will begin. SRI AUROBINDO: Which astrologers? PURANI: The Parsi one and somebody else also. Pavitra too knows astrology, but he did not try to see Hitler's horoscope. SRI AUROBINDO: He is not good at events. He studies the character, and there he has made remarkable readings. About Hitler he has found that he will cause terrible bloodshed and that he runs a great danger to his own life. NIRODBARAN: Amery has repeated the old formula about India's internal differences. SRI AUROBINDO: Yes, these Labour leaders seem to be useless as regards India. In their own affairs they can exert pressure on the Government. Even the Manchester Guardian defends Jinnah. It doesn't know enough about India, it seems. NIRODBARAN: That paper sometimes takes this side and sometimes that side. SRI AUROBINDO: If the Congress had agreed to the scheme of a few people coming together for discussions, then they could have tried for a compromise. The English people are a practical people. Page -718 They don't understand the principles the Congress stands for. And for them to agree to whatever the Constituent Assembly decides is out of the question. Stafford Cripps may do that but he is not the Premier. About Lady Hydari who died one or two days ago, Sri Aurobindo said that she would not have lasted long, but her death was hastened. Doctors said that she should have lived eighteen months more. She was much better here. In order to live longer she would have had to make an inner effort. She was open to various influences, even to those who are hostile towards the Ashram.
EVENINGSRI AUROBINDO: Fazlul Huque has come down again on Bose's paper by demanding more security. By the way, this agitation against the Holwell monument seems to be a pre-arranged affair. The Forward says that Fazlul Huque has already said that it will be removed. NIRODBARAN: Yes, there was an attempt on the part of the Muslims to remove the monument and Bose has taken up that cry. In the Corporation, a European member proposed to withdraw all advertisements from the Star of India because of its attack on Sri Krishna, and the Hindu Sabha supported him. But Bose opposed it. His party, himself and other Muslims voted against it. SRI AUROBINDO (laughing): You mean he is also a Muslim? NIRODBARAN: Going to be! PURANI: The Germans claim to have taken Verdun which means they have crossed the Maginot Line. SRI AUROBINDO: The Mother says that the Maginot Line is a farce because from the point where the Rhine divides France and Germany, there is no proper Maginot, only scattered fortifications. Only in the north from Montmedy the Maginot proper begins. I don't know why they have done that. Have they thought that the Rhine will be a natural barrier? It is absurd. If such is the case they ought to remove their troops from there in time. Page -719 |